Responses & frivolity in the comments!
Wednesday, October 13, 2010
Prithee, Inform Me: The Novel & The Short Story
I've oft wondered, mes auteurs, whether the majority of you write short stories in addition to novels, and if so, how similar you find the two media. Do certain ideas lend themselves much better to short stories than novels, and vice versa? Do you believe the two arts are so different that being good at one doesn't necessarily mean you'll be any good at the other? If you read and write short stories, which magazines/journals do you like to read/subscribe to? &c &c.
Responses & frivolity in the comments!
Responses & frivolity in the comments!
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I wrote short stories before I started my first novel (which in fact was one of those short stories before a reader suggested I expand it). I still have a list of short stories I want to write, but I always move on to a new manuscript. I tried to make myself write a short story before starting a new novel, but there is something more satisfying to me about the long form than the short form.
ReplyDeleteI think short stories and novels express two different things. A novel does (or should) express a change, an evolution and a feeling of time.
ReplyDeleteShort stories focus on a moment, a person or a single concept. I find them much harder to write.
I feel that short stories and novels differ in the depth of their theme or plot. I write both but find that some stories lend themselves to shorter, while others, longer lengths. I use the short story to concentrate on a pivotal decision or action of one character. I've also written short stories that turned into longer works with many characters and plotlines and taken, what I thought would be novel length projects and found they only lended themselves to shorter stories.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ben in part but find that the word limitations seem to be getting kind of fuzzy between short stories, novellas, and novels as of late.
I certainly believe short story writing is an entirely different art than the novel. I love short stories (E.A. Poe is one of my favorite authors) but I cannot write them to save my skin! My ideas always explode around me. I love world-building - I write fantasy - and can never seem to zero in on one theme or character or situation without expanding it beyond the short form. That's not to say the short story is limiting. Quite the contrary, the short story can be wonderful and enthralling when properly done. Its just that I haven't seemed to stumble on the right idea that lends itself to the form. It's something I want to keep practicing though, because I do love the medium.
ReplyDeleteA marathon versus the sprint.
ReplyDeleteBoth require legs and certain muscles but need different strengths and focus.
Having written both and sold a short story.... Short stories are far different from novels. Short stories have a tighter, simpler structure that rely heavily on context and character from the very beginning. Novels have a more complex structure that uses plot to show the reader everything from character to place and builds context as it goes.
ReplyDeleteMy one successful short story sale (By Hook or By Crook) was to the Grantville Gazette (www.grantvillegazette.com) It's an e-magazine that supports the alt-history 1632 series created by Eric Flint. I had to work within his guidelines for his world, which made it easier in some ways and harder in others.
With that said, my natural writing length seems to be a three book series. At least, that's what happened to the last short story I started. My editor from Jim Baen's Universe (another e-magazine) kept telling me to add more to the story.
I write short stories on occasion. Most of my ideas become complex and lend themselves well to the novel's longer length, but sometimes I just want to capture a short moment, a snippet of some life or event, and then I craft it into a short story. They tend to be tighter, simpler, and more quickly paced. I'd like to write more of them, but most of my energies go into novel-length works.
ReplyDeleteMost of my reading is novels as well, but I do love a good short story once in a while. My favorite magazine lately has been Beneath Ceaseless Skies, which publishes gorgeous fantasy works.
We might also go from novel to short story. What about a couple of those 2nd or 3d level characters who might have interesting experiences?
ReplyDeleteWe usually portray the novel's protagonist with his POV and most of the action. How about his helpful sidekicks who have interesting experiences which help/hinder him?
We could use a short story about some of these "minor" characters' adventures that don't really have a place in the novel. Then, give it away as a freebie or a $.99 on Amazon. Of course, you'll have a link or something to the actual novel.
We might also go from novel to short story. What about a couple of those 2nd or 3d level characters who might have interesting experiences?
ReplyDeleteRosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead, Jim!
I remember being frustrated when I was in school for creative writing (undergrad) because, especially in the beginning classes, there'd be such a limiting page count (only five pages!!) or we'd be specifically prohibited from writing a chapter of something longer in place of a short story. My ideas always seemed to lend themselves to novel form than short story (though I did have a brief flirtation which flash fiction) and while in the upper classes we could work on excerpts from longer work, it wasn't the same as actually working on a longer work.
ReplyDeleteI think Ben summed up the difference pretty well. Another difference, purely logistical, is the time, discipline, and craft aspect. While I learned about aspects of writing through working on short stories in school, I didn't really learn about writing a novel which is obviously a whole new challenge. (If for no other reason than having to keep one's gnat-like attention span in check for months at a time) Even knowing how to write a chapter isn't necessarily the same as knowing how to write a short story because I beginning chapter isn't the same as a middle or ending chapter. Parceling out a plot over several chapters is a way different challenge than keeping your world condensed.
While I may surprise myself with a short story every blue moon (or what's something rarer than a blue moon?), I don't think being actively good at one discipline necessarily means you're actively good at the other. I remember a writer, don't remember his name, but he wrote short stories that had a really fast pace where the first person narrator jumped around in his story at break-neck speeds. The stories were really funny and dizzying and great, but the writer said he'd never write a novel because he'd never be able to keep up that pacing across hundreds of page. Since I can't remember his name, I couldn't look him up to see if he ever changed his mind.
My problem is usually the opposite. Generally I can't keep an idea condensed (and focused?) enough to fit into one story. So most of the time my short stories were incomplete wannabe novels.
Would the comparison between a short film and feature length movie be equivalent to comparing a short story and novel? Feature length films are free to fully explore the dimensions of its characters and their problems. A short film is all about the "punch line" (whether humorous or not) at the end.
Goodness that was a long comment. See I can't even keep it short in posting a comment.
ReplyDeleteI tried to write short stories for years with little to no success. I almost convinced myself it was ridiculous to try and write at all because I couldn't write a good short story. Then I got brave enough to start writing a novel and it came fairly easilly to me. After 8 months of writing and then a year of revisions - I think it's pretty good. The thing is - I love the process and I seem to excel at that long term focus thing. The short story - not so much - a whole different animal - and one I personally find limiting.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting--I believe I can write a good novel, but my short stories are (to me, at least) an embarrassment.
ReplyDeleteBut I recently discovered I can write flash fiction that I like.
So apparently it's over 80,000 or under 800 for me!
I think they take a different skill set. That said, I have two short stories for kids published, along with a novel. So, I guess you can do both!!!
ReplyDeleteI write both to varying degrees of success. I think grinding out a novel is far more satisfying upon completion but writing a short story offers more immediate satisfaction.
ReplyDeleteI write novels (one published, the second soon to be published) but not short stories. I think short works are much harder to write. I've known writers who spend years perfecting short story techniques. I'll stick with longer fiction for right now!
ReplyDeleteMy natural length is the novel, but I write short stories to help me overcome my tendency to overshoot my word count. There's nothing like writing a short story to illustrate to me the different between what I want to put in and what I need to put in for the story to work. I tend to think a writer can be good at both, possibly because my only publication credits are for short stories. I do most of my short story reading online (while all of my novel reading comes from paperbacks). I've read good things lately in Fantasy Magazine, Abyss & Apex, and Edge of Propinquity (all spec fic).
ReplyDeleteI write both. With a novel, I'm a huge outliner. I need to know who we are and where we are going (more or less) before I start. With short stories, I just go with it.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite lit mags are Glimmer Train, The Missouri Review, McSweeney's, and Tin House. Among others.
I write both, and I find them to be largely different mediums. My short stories tend to be smaller views into the lives of my characters, while my novels stretch over a great deal more time. Still, both need to be complete stories. A short story isn't just a scene with no resolution - it needs the same overall structure you find in a novel. It's just generally in a more concentrated format.
ReplyDeleteIt's a different format, as well. Many of the literary devices used in novels don't translate well to short stories, and vice-versa.
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ReplyDeleteI've written mostly novella/book length stories and only dabbled in short/flash for about a year, but I find my comfort zone in writing the novella/book length story.
ReplyDeleteI've had a few problems in writing anything that requires a character (thus my only published story is about the four seasons on a mountain as it compares to the four stages of man) in under 5K words, but I have taken a few of my short stories and have managed to work them out to a meatier length.
Still, while a short story can be a great exercise to unleash the dopiness within, my preference will always be the novella/novel.
But I do tip my hat to those who can turn out a good short story.
A short story is an affair - the novel a marriage.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy, and think myself fairly good at, both.
There are some who can write both mediums well and others who struggle with one or the other.
ReplyDeleteShort stories still need to have an arc, they need to be complete and well-rounded, but they obviously need to be tight. Short story does not = incomplete story, or lesser story.
Sometimes I immediately know if an idea is for a novel or short story, and sometimes I'm wrong. Usually, I have to pull some details out of the fog of 'vague plot concept' before I really understand how it'll turn out, and sometimes I'm wrong about that, too. The only initial difference, for me, is how long it will take for the plot to play out. The actually writing is different. I'm more careful with characterization, pacing, and backstory placement in shorter work, because there's so little time to get close to the story, but for novels I'll spend as much time as I want on anything I think important. Of course, in the latter, some of that self-indulgence hits the cutting room floor during editing.
ReplyDeleteIn general, I'd say my ideas are about fifty-fifty for the different lengths. But I tend to get more of the short stories completed.
I've published a number of short stories and am working on novels/novellas. I find short stories easier simply because of the time commitment it takes to write a novel, and then revise it, and revise it, and revise it. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with GhostFolk. Short stories are a great training ground for novels. They foster an understanding of character arc and tight plotting.
I do both, depending on the complexity of the story it occurs to me to tell. Short stories are harder to get right, and because I have trouble with endings, novels tend to work better for me because there are fewer endings per word.
ReplyDeleteI began by writing short stories, which is ironic, because I think they are a more difficult write than novels. You have such a short time to tell the story, and it requires so much precision as well as great literary skill. The only thing harder to write, for me, is poetry.
ReplyDeleteMy first publications were short stories, but I switched to novels because I needed more time to tell the story I wanted to tell. I love characters, and short stories didn't let me delve deeply enough into their growth. (Or let me throw enough stuff at them).
ReplyDeleteI think it's much harder to write short.
Terry
Terry's Place
Romance with a Twist--of Mystery
For me short stories were stepping stones to writing a novel. That doesn't mean the process for each one is interchangeable, but rather it reflects on the length and the amount of time involved for each respective literary form. In fact, my first (and only) completed novel was a really a conglomeration of short stories, where I filled in the spaces between each story with fresh text.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, the novel did not garnish any interest from agents, so I am now faced with the task of writing a second novel.